ok so a few days ago Kelsey sent me a link to a blog. She said she had something great that she couldnt wait to share with me, quickly followed by "well i mean your reaction will be great."
And what was it? A freaking public blog of a HOME BIRTH with extreme pictures of everything...NOTHING left to the imagination and i mean nothing. It is gross. And if you are extremely curious, you can look here, but its not for the weak. Anyway, there was no medical professional on hand and at one point she says she was promised inspiration on what to do through a blessing. So i guess she was planning on recieving knowledge of a med school graduate with plenty of years of internships and residency...and a lifetime of common sense.
I personally think you can do whatever you want in your home, fine...but when you bring another person into the mix, in this case a newborn infant who cannot make these huge choices, it is a problem.
It doesnt seem sanitary to have a family in the pool with you, i mean its the insides of her uterus floating in the pool...how gross is that?
She linked to another blog where i found this...a Placenta print. A PLACENTA PRINT. This woman made a print of her placenta and decided on naming the child after this print since it looked like a rose. She writes that one of them is painted with watercolors straight on the placenta and the other is just the blood from the placenta. BARF. 
LADIES WE ARE NOT PIONEERS. LETS REMEMEBER THAT WE ARE BLESSED TO HAVE THE TECHNOLOGY AND PROFESSIONALS TO DELIVER OUR CHILDREN.
and can we not be freaks? doesnt the hospital treat your placenta as a bio hazzard? so gross.
Wednesday, April 23, 2008
are we living in the 1800's?
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114 thoughtful remarks:
That is the most disgusting thing ever. The placenta print is so sick. I just read it. I think the thing that disturbed me the most was the mom and dad in the dirty placenta water.
I went through A LOT of emotions from reading your post to hers and back to yours...i went to you're so funny shauna, to what the?! woman, to seriously?! woman, then to amen shauna...ahhhh whatever.
OMG you did not mention about the Placenta Print to me. What are these ladies thinking?? I mean, the weird thing about the birthing blogger is that ALL of her friends seem to share this mentality! That is pretty scary.
Hey Shauna, when you do your home birth in your living room please let me know so I can come soak in the mucous plug/uterus juice water afterward. It's supposed to be really good for your skin. Thanks.
Ally
OH MY!!! This is the most disturbing thing I have EVER seen! Why are people so weird?!?! And then all the comments people left her, they all were for it. That is seriously disgusting, I can't get over it. And then her husband jumps in the pool with her, SICK!!!!!
Check out Ricki Lake's new documentary "The Business of Being Born". Might shed some light on why women would choose to birth at home and give you pause before speaking so authoritatively on the "safety" of technology.
dear anonymous,
last time i checked i dont take anything ricki lake says as scripture. And there is no way in hell you can try to tell me that having a baby in your home without a doctor is safer than at a hospital with people who deliver babies daily.
Nice try though.
Oh, right. Except for the fact that the US has more babies die at birth per year than any other country. Including third world countries. Home birth survival rates are MUCH higher than hospital's.
thats because practically 100% of americans take healthcare seriously and go to the hospital when they are giving birth. There are complications in childbirth, what do you do when youre at home in a pool of blood and your baby has a collapsed lung or something worse, then what do you do? You could of saved your child by being at the hospital. DOCTORS DONT KILL BABIES, sorry lady, whoever you are.
Looks to me like everything turned out pretty safely.
Hello,
The picture on this post is copyrighted and, as I mentioned on my blog, is not available to repost without written permission.
what is the patent number for that copyright shauna? you dont copyright your own personal pics... I love that you are getting attacked by these homebirthers!!!
I dont think anyone is attacking as harshly as she did.
i can have my opinion on things, i feel fine about that...
its just seems strange to me that you feel like its ok to have a public forum expressing your opinions on childbirth, nursing and diapers, along with explicit pictures-and then throw a fit when i have an opinion as well?
just seems kind of hypocritical
I completely agree Shauna. I don't have a problem with your opinion. It was someone else who was making accusations about you being attacked which I think is unfair. Noone is really attacking anyone else, simply trying to express their opinion also. We all have our preferences for how things should be done, lets be thankful we live in a place where we are allowed to exercise our choices.
well i was never attacking you and you said i was. I think that your view on things is skewed and broken, but thats just my opinion. And i will have my children in the hospital with a fully trained and EDUCATED staff ready for whatever happens.
Is my opinion that you are putting your life and the life of your child in danger? sure is.
I completely agree with Shauna. I know she's right because I've prayed about it....Anywho, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but endangering the life of an unborn baby is a whole other story. If you ask me, you are asking for trouble when you decide to birth a baby in your living room or wherever else you choose to put the child size blow up swimming pool. I admire people for being different, but c'mon this is ridiculous! My question to the homebirthers is this....If you are so obviously against technology, then why are you using modern day technology (the internet) to post your graphic blog?!? Kinda hypocritical don't you think?
That's fine. I wish you the best with any future pregnancy, labour and delivery.
yeah thanks, i will have the best. the best doctors...thanks!
i kind of feel like you are cheating your child of a normal life if they are brought into this world in a pool of blood and plastered all over the internet. i dont think thats really keeping the child safe.
word4play, is that you?
The one who commented named "Rixa" wrote a little blog post about me on her site. Thought you might be interested on how unhappy she is that i share things i feel strongly about with my friends.
www.rixarixa.blogspot.com
Hmmm... I posted a comment on here earlier but it hasn't shown up. I'll try one more time:
I am very interested to see the data behind your assertions that homebirth is risky and hospital birth with doctors is not (or less so). My husband is a doctor and we chose an unassisted homebirth, in part because the data supports the safety of homebirth, and in part because my husband is a neurologist. He is the one the hospital calls in to declare PVS (persistent vegetative state). Many of the deaths that occur in hospitals are due to a cascade of unnecessary interventions. A homebirth gone awry makes front page news, whether the problem had anything to with the fact that it was a homebirth or not. A hospital birth gone awry is quietly settled. I don't remember seeing any mention anywhere of the deaths that occurred in the cases that he followed.
One thing that might perhaps help you to understand the reasons why someone might want a homebirth would be to study the data. Don't go to magazine articles or opinion pieces - go straight to reputable medical journals. A good place to start online would be Medline.
I think it is sad to see women slagging off other women for choosing how they see is the best way to bring their baby into the world. I"m 9 months pregnant, and I will have my baby in a hospital, where things do go wrong, just as they do at home. However I do think you have no right to judge anothers choice for such a thing, also if you are not a mother how can you possibly know the emotions, fears, psychology and thought involved etc in giving birth to a child? To label her choice "sick" is ignorant, and puerile. Read some literature on homebirth or even birth, then make an informed intelligent comment. Birth is a visceral, emotional, magical and intensely individual experience, YOU were all born, after being nourished by your mothers placenta, how can you be so judgemental as women?
http://www.storknet.com/cubbies/homebirth/homebirthsafety.htm
If you took the time to read all of Rixa's blog you would see that she is actually very educated and was prepared for any castasrophe that may have taken place. Her daughter was at no time in any danger- and the whole "danger" aspect depends on your perspective. Some women consider a hospital dangerous. I would not chose a home birth personally, but I do believe that women should be able to chose what kind of birth experience they want- whether it be in the hospital totally drugged or at home with or without an attendant. And last time I checked, she wasn't mad about your post. She actually laughed about it.
LOL! Wow, talk about ignorance... You're about to tell me that for hundreds if not thousands of years, babies have not been delivered AT HOME with trained midwifes?
And how ignorant is it to equate 'homebirthers' with naive luddites who hate technology? Talk about having a limited worldview...
Are you so out of touch with your bodily functions that you think you didn't come out of a womb, covered with muck and amniotic fluid once? Maybe your mom decided to take drugs and dull out the experience of giving birth. All the power to her if that was her choice, but some people choose not to get shot up with drugs and cut open in a more invasive and more problematic fashion...
What that one woman 'shared' with the world and her friends is ONE way to do a homebirth, but as another poster said, there are various ways that people choose to deliver their babies. It's called a birthplan and not everyone chooses to put their birth experience in the hands of a doctor who only shows up at the last minute to deliver the baby. Doctors provide expertise and services but so do EDUCATED midwifes and other professionals.
It's funny how you are quick to defend your 'strong opinion' even when it sounds more like 'ewwwwww, grossssss!' to me...
Last time I checked, that wasn't my definition of an educated medical opinion ;)
Ha this is hilarious.
im not grossed out by birthing a child. What am i grossed out about? Posting the pictures on the internet, and also having other join you in all of the fluids. Im not the only one who is grossed out. Doesnt make my opinion invalid though.
Homebirth vs Hospital birth, Homeschooling vs. Schooling...everyone has rights sure, but do they make the right choice? a lot of times i dont think so. Get all up in arms about it if you want to, no sweat off my back.
And as far as i know my mom wasnt all drugged up, but i guess i wouldnt know cause she doesnt have pictures of it everywhere. And i cant say that i am upset that she doesnt.
why do so many people care what this nice girl thinks about all this in a blog that usually just her friends read. What are you doing with your life that you are searching out random blogs to rip on people with differing opinions.
Danny it was her that first linked to someone else's site and "ripped" on her opinion.
I post photos from my breech home birth on my blog, website, and my exam room (and in my book). I desire women to be more comfortable with their body and their roles to mother naturally. My patients look to me as an example. If I am not comfortable with my body to birth and breastfeed, how can I expect them to be. Unfortunately most women aren't exposed to natural birth enough and don't know they have choices in birth.
Denise Punger
As a childbirth educator this is really upsetting to me. Because you see birth as 'gross'? Because you don't believe homebirth is safe? Because you believe a placenta is 'bio-hazard material'? No, because of your ignorance.
As a doula in the hospital setting I know first hand how technology is overused, how medication which can cause problems during labor and birth is used too often, and how c/secs are often done unnecessarily due to a lack of impatience. I also personally know the women that have experienced the overuse of interventions, the push to just take the drugs, and the loss of a normal birth thru surgery because of time constraints. I know the pain these women experience afterwards and the struggles they go thru in figuring out why their bodies failed them, or rather why the medical profession failed them.
Technology has a place, but when used routinely and often times unnecessarily it doesn't improve birth outcomes or save women from complications, it usually has the opposite effect by creating situations that otherwise wouldn't have existed and now necessitate interventions. It becomes a domino effect and can cause more harm than good.
Hence, women will choose other birthing options such as homebirths or birthing centers to lessen their chances of having unnecessary interventions and increasing their options for a normal birth.
Someone choosing a homebirth is not against technology, but they are educated enough to understand the difference between using it routinely or using it judiciously, and if having their baby in a hospital means having to fight for a normal birth experience free from unnecessary interventions than some women choose other options, like homebirth.
You certainly are entitled to your opinion, especially on your own blog, but what's sad to me is that thru your obvious lack of understanding and knowledge about childbirth, you pass this on to other women you know, and quite possibly your daughters one day. We as women need to pass down wisdom and knowledge to one another that will support and enforce the true beauty of birth, of new life.
Why don't you try the hell of laboring while lying unmoving on a bed, hooked up to all sorts of machines, and having rude nurses bitch at you for moving? Or, may'be try nurses asking you every time they come into your room if you're ready for a epidural when you've already told them you would like a natural labor?
Until you've been through a hospital birth, or any birth in your case, you don't have much right to bitch about those who choose something different.
And, births aren't a pretty thing to see, sorry. It's a fact of life, so just get over it. When and if you do have a baby the last thing you want to hear about your delivery is "ew, that's gross".
yeah its not a pretty thing and most normal people dont broadcast their crotch and boobs for the entire world to see.
you guys need to get a life, seriously.
Yeah, this is petty. These pictures are not posted all over for the world to see - they are on someone's personal blog. WAY TO GO, owner of this blog. If you think its so gross, WHY DO YOU LINK IT TO YOUR BLOG FOR ALL OF YOUR IMMATURE FRIENDS TO SEE? If you don't want to see it, don't go to it. It's her blog, let her do what she wants.
And yeah - until you've actually had a birth, keep your opinions about other's births to yourself. I have no respect for your thoughts on childbirth.
Oh and by the way - the person about whom you are talking is my wife's friend. Yeah, that's right, I am a man, and I respect the fact that God created the woman's body to give birth - not to be sliced open and operated on when its time for a baby to be born.
And I'm completely offended that you would diss the blessing that her husband gave her. YEAH - I do think that she would be given inspiration, because I think God knows more than the dumb doctor at the office.
okay first off, I was sliced open to have both of my children, and if I wasn't my child could have died. i know you think you guys are really cool and really womenly because you can have a natural childbirth in your home....well guess what, it doesn't make you cool. AT ALL! and don't act like people who have epidurals and C-sections are druggies, we would just like to actually enjoy our children being born, and look cute in the pictures too (that's right, how do you like that!)Its like, if you have food in your house would you just starve! no you would eat the food and enjoy it, right? So take the freaking drugs and enjoy life a little more!
This is the most unbelievable thing I've ever seen. I just cannot believe the people coming out of the wordwork to comment on this blog. They are a few things that come to mind when I read this: Why wasn't the blog that was posting pictures of a birth PRIVATE if no one else was supposed to look at it? Why in the world would you post nude pictures online for anyone to see if it is so special to you? I just don't understand. Home birth is definitely the route that some people should take and I understand that, but just go private already. I have a hard time believing that it is normal or should be treated as SO private if there are graphic details and pictures. Comments should be expected...so should opinions. It could have been made private. In MY opinion I would rather die than have nude pictures of myself, baby or husband at such a special time of my life. Just make it private or even better, stop complaining when people see something like this. Enough said. This is just craziness.
okay so Ive had some time to digest all this. Like you, I read peoples comments about how "inspirational" she was. I couldn't help but look at who these people were. Curiosity got to the best of me- and I paid for it! Below is another "touching" story...
http://pregnancy3.blogspot.com/
OHH YEAH!- I also found out that people save there placenta so that they can EAT IT!!! I swear! I looked it up. Apparently it has loads of nutrients and so people (who aren't starving) CHOOSE to eat it! Including celebrities. Two people come to mind when I hear that... Tom Cruise and Angelina Jolie (I mean she did drink a vile of Billy Bobs blood AND made out with her brother).
Two words in reference to the PATRICK FAMILY post....TRUE DAT! I mean, looking cute while delivering a baby?!? Why the hell not? I am addicted to this blog, not because I am pro homebirth but because I am in utter shock that the lives of our future generations are lying in the hands of such ridiculous, unrealistic individuals. Let's address the issue of placenta paintings... Who wouldn't want their afterbirth framed on their living room wall right? WRONG! A wise man (who shall remain nameless) once said "Why not capture the child's first bowel movement??? A "poop painting" if you will..." But, that idea got shot down real quick. Same thing really, both graphically disturbing....I would also like to throw in that if you want to get attention, then go natural (drug less) in the hospital. Shoot, most of our parents did it. You don't have to endanger your childs life just because you're trying to get noticed. Our religion was thrown in here multiple times and to that I would just like to ask...What happened to our bodies being temples? I mean, naked pictures on the public internet for the whole world to see probably isn't your best route....Just sayin' I think the main issue here is that you are publically displaying graphic NUDE pictures of yourself and your afterbirth online, while you are typing about the sacredness of a woman's body!!! Here's something to ponder about...What would happen if you walked around naked in public?? You'd be checking your blog in jail my friend.... HA!
I cant believe that this woman would post pornographic pictures of herself and also talk about something so sacred as priesthood blessings at the same time- and think that that is okay?! Please remove the link to LDS.org so that people don't think that this is another weird thing Mormons believe in. No wonder people ask ridiculous questions like "are Mormons allowed to dance?" and "And do you have two moms?"... stories like this make people think we live in the dark ages. We are blessed to live in a time of technology. I haven't heard one reason why a home birth benefits the child? Instead its "empowering" and "inspirational". It just sounds selfish to me.
i don't think that rixa was mad or offended by your post. it seems to me that her readers were more upset by the whole thing than she was.
This is really interesting to read about all the different opinions about birth! I never knew there were so many. I think its great that everyone feels so strongly. Diversity makes the world a better place. I don't believe one way is wrong and the other is right. When I have a baby, I will just have to pick the best way for me! (but I don't think I would ever post pictures on the internet! yuck! you know that guy is never running for office now!)
Trust me, Shauna's Mom had no drugs when she delivered her, not even a Tylenol! She was a 'real woman'! If she had the choice she would have chosen an epidural, but back in the dark ages (80's) that was not an option. There were complications & had there not been skilled doctors and nurses there in the hospital it might not have been such a happy ending. There were a couple of women back then that I know of that chose home birth and one of my good friends had twins at home and they both died before they reached the hospital. Very sad and totally unnecessary.
Okay first and foremost I would like to address a recurring statistic that keeps showing up in the argument for UC. "More babies die in the US than in any other country" I have no problem with evidence and in fact I support it, but if you are going to do research please let it be good research. According to the CIA factbook the U.S. is somewhere in the middle for infant mortality rate. Beating Spain, France, Luxembourg, the United Kingdom. Also according to Jack Turman, Jr., PhD Founder and Director of the Center for Premature Infant Health and Development at the USC Keck School of Medicine and the National Vital Statistics Report the #1 cause of infant mortality is not hospital or not hospital birth, but low birth weights and pre-term births. While I respect your rights to have an UC I disagree and hope that my future wife will have our future children in a hospital.
In 1965, 7% of live births were preterm, birth data from 2002 reveal that 12.1% approx 484,254 infants) of live births were the result of preterm delivery. A combination of pharmacological agents and advanced neonatal technology has dramatically improved preterm infant survival rates (11.6% for birth weights les than 500 g, 50.7% for birth weights of 500-749 g, 83.9% for birth weights of 750-1000 g) resulting in an ever increasing number of preterm infants surviving into adulthood.
I believe that this is one reason why women choose to have their children in hospitals. I know that I would not have 4 of my nieces and nephews if it wasn't for competent trained medical personnel. Do what you want and more power to you, but I just thought we could use a little more evidence in this discussion.
To post a copyrighted picture on your blog without written permission (esp. after the owner of the copyright has asked you politely to remove it) is incredibly dishonest.
Opinions are one thing. Theft is another.
I was born at home 25 yrs ago and I turned out fine. There is nothing wrong with home births and you shouldn't judge someone for doing it. After all she isn't judging you and what is on your blog
HI Shauna,
Well, I have a lot to say and I hope it comes across as calmly as I am feeling while writing.
First of all, your original post cracked me up. I can see your shock coming through. I understand that homebirth is totally not in your frame of reality.
But I kind of liken this to the gospel. A lot of people before hearing the Gospel of Jesus Christ, are kind of shocked that LDS people don't drink, obey the Sabbath, etc... But then, when they actually speak with a missionary or learn more they are touched.
I remember when I first heard about homebirth, (I wasn't grossed out like you,) but I was very surprised!
Then I studied, and pondered and prayed, and I had a witness of the spirit that I should homebirth my third child. I have given birth unassisted 4 times now. (They have all been born safely and you can see a photo of them on my blog. They are very normal looking! :)
check out their blog and you'll see how adorable they are
http://acoupleofgoofballs.blogspot.com)
The other thing that grossed you out was someone getting in the tub with a laboring mom. Not every homebirth or waterbirth that takes place does so with others in the pool. My husband did not get in with me for the same reason that you wouldn't.
As for the mess of homebirth, it is really not that messy. You just wrap up a big pad or towel and throw it away. At all of my births there has been very LITTLE blood.
You were also grossed out by the photos. NOT EVERY homebirther or unassisted birther believes in displaying their photos on the internet. I actually have written several posts on my blog hoping to disuade Christian women, especially LDS women, from following this trend. http://spiritledbirth.blogspot.com
I believe that birth photos are very educational, but I think they can be done carefully without explicit nudity.
As for the placenta print, I have never heard of such a thing myself. I find it a rather interesting idea though. I might consider it myself....
I would also like to share with you that I believe that there is much in the scriptures that applies to birth, particularly to natural birth and breastfeeding, so much so that I have begun writing a book on the subject.
Although it still needs editing and revising, it is available for free on my website. It is titled,
Christ-Centered Childbirth: Applying Principles of the Gospel to Chidbearing.
http://spiritledbirth.webs.com/mybook.htm
P.S
If you are interested in reading my thoughts on birth nudity, here's the direct link to my blog posts.
http://spiritledbirth.blogspot.com/search/label/Modesty
I am not a reader of your blog, just have come across the post. I'm a nurse, I work in pediatric in-patient and I can promise you much of what doctors and nurses do is to cover their rears from being sued. Yes we do our jobs because we want to help others but the fear of litigation is very real. That fear is present especially in Labor and Delivery where everyone expects everything to be perfect and it's not always. This has caused an increased in unnecessary interventions (in court you can say, 'but we did this and this and this') which causes a domino effect to bad outcomes sometimes. Last year the 31.7% of babies were via c-section in this country. Do you really think 1/3 of mothers can not birth their babies?
I never thought much of birth or babies until I had my first, I thought it was absurd when women would go on and on about birth stories. However after having my first I understood that it can deeply effect a woman. Some women would prefer to do birth at home (which is indeed a safer option for low-risk women, go research it) to have a more private uplifting experience. Look at Sweden where 40% of births happen at home, most of them are assisted. I would guess most women who choose an unassisted homebirth do their research and know what to expect.
She put the blog out I would imagine to inform other women that there are other options besides birthing in a hospital. A lot of women don't realize this.
Also nudity is not always pornographic. Statue of David anyone? I think a lot of LDS young men and women are unfortunate to live in homes where sex and their bodies are "bad." So when they get married, it feels sinful. I'm LDS, grew up LDS and my mom always taught us to respect our bodies and that sex was great, but only in the right conditions.
I don't think Shauna or anyone ever said they were grossed out by sex or that sex was a bad thing....And, although I agree with the last blogger in regards to nudity not always being bad, I do have to disagree with you comparing the statue of David to the naked graphic pictures of this lady in the pool giving birth. I appreciate such historical pieces of art but am struggling to connect the statue of David to the disturbing, graphic image of this homebirthing blog. I was raised to know that Heavenly Father has blessed me with the body that I have, but to also take care of it and to treat it as I would a temple. There is a reason why we don't publically post everything about the temple on the internet. And, just like a temple, our bodies are also sacred. I was also raised to know that nudity and/or sex are not a bad thing at all, when used correctly.... It bothers me that the church is constantly being brought into this blog spat...The original post was simply in regards to homebirth and naked images on the public internet. I mean, it simple when you stop and think about it...You don't see naked people on the pages of the Ensign do you?!?
Dear anonymous, Rikki Lake is not a doctor. Some statistics show that home birth is as safe as hospital birth for low-risk pregnancies. Of course that's with the assistance of a trained midwife who's got his/her cellphone nearby to call an ambulance in case of a real emergency. Of course that ambulance then takes you to a hospital. Why not just start there. Then you don't have to risk dying on the way. Of course other statistics show that the fatality rate for home births is twice as high as hospital births. Anywhere from as safe to twice as risky. I'd rather just go to a hospital. If this is the same anonymous person, you also said, "the US has more babies die at birth per year than any other country. Including third world countries. Home birth survival rates are MUCH higher than hospital's." This actually shows you are an idiot. If you are talking about sheer numbers, more babies die at birth in China and in India than in the US. But sheer numbers are misleading because we have the world's third most populous country, so it stands to reason we would have more babies dying because we have more births. But I don't think that's what you meant. You may be stupid, but not that stupid. I think you meant we have more babies dying per birth than any other country. This is not as stupid to say, but it is still extremely stupid in its own right. It's stupid because it's not true. Of course liars aren't necessarily stupid, but I don't think you're lying. You see, it's such a bald-faced and stupid lie, that to claim it, knowing you're lying, and thinking we'll believe you is even stupider than just believing it yourself. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you believe it yourself. The US is not even close to being the worst in the world for infant mortality per birth. Not even close. We're actually one of the better countries in the world. Maybe you've heard we're one of the worst among industrialized nations. That's true, but misleading. Misleading because we're still among the best in the world. Misleading because what separates us from better countries is not much. Namely, instead of 4 deaths per 1,000, we are at 5 deaths per 1,000. And it's misleading in the context of this discussion because most of the countries beating us by such small amounts are hospital birth babies like us. And it's also misleading because the main cause of our infant death rates are babies being born too small or too early, not from being born in hospitals. The reason so many are born too small or too early is due to a mother's lack of education (typically leading to a lack of education in healthy pregnancy practices). The other reason for our failings compared to other developed countries is very ironic. It's because of our lack of a universal health care system for those who can't afford it. How funny is that? So access to health care leads to lower infant mortality rate. And here's another news flash for all those people who say, "Mothers have been giving birth for thousands of years without hospitals and doctors." And of course mothers and babies have been dying at hideous rates in childbirth for thousands of years. They still die at those alarming rates in many third world countries, especially in Africa--a terribly sad truth indeed. Thank heavens for modern medicine and doctors. Lastly, my daughter and quite possibly my wife would be dead if we had tried to have the baby at home. The umbilical cord was wrapped around Jane's neck, it was cutting off her circulation and breathing, and she was not coming out at all. The doctor delivered her safely. Jane stayed in the NICU with her audibly labored breathing from a hole she blew out her lung. Jane's perfectly healthy now. The doctor was not our regular OB. He was not as kind and Ella thought him rude. But we are both very glad for that rude doctor. I don't care whether or not I get to cry tears of joy in a kiddie pool with my wife and daughter while we cut the umbilical cord. I just want my wife and brand new beautiful girl alive. They would not be today if it weren't for being born in a hospital. Now with a midwife, maybe things might have turned out okay as the midwife called 911 to get Ella to the hospital. Maybe Jane would've still lived in that scenario. Maybe she would've had slight brain damage. I don't know. But I know if it was just Ella and I, it would still be just Ella and I today. I love Jane and I'll never have a baby outside of a hospital if I can help it.
Oh, and as far as the Placenta Print goes, that is straight up sick. Karoshi I am not "out of touch with [my] bodily functions." I poop every day. That doesn't mean I glory in it, dab it on a piece of paper, embellish it with watercolors, and name my kid Poo. That sounds downright disgusting, doesn't it. Well, that's how I believe a vast majority of people feel about Placenta Prints. They're sick. A placenta is not a god to be worshiped for its life-giving power. It's just biology. The real miracle is the baby. Cherish the baby, not the placenta and it's supernatural powers to create a painting of a rose.
Matt-
It is so nice to hear a mans point of view on this. I am so glad that you and your wife chose to have your daughter in a hospital where doctors were on hand to help out with the small complication. Reading your post gives me hope, and your bodily functions part made me laugh.... HILARIOUS :) Thanks!
Infant mortality tells us nothing of obstetric care. It is the wrong statistic. Neonatal mortality is what you would look for. And seeing that the US delivers more preterm babies successfully, we (USA) have a really good record.
As far as placenta print, nobody is getting hurt. It is harmless.
As far as graphic is concerned? I was let down. They could have been way more graphic. I don't understand why folks put up naked birth pictures on the internet. However, they have a right to express themselves. Again. Nobody getting hurt by looking at nude photos of birth.
What concerns me is that folks are birthing babies that are high risk at home. Twins, breech, ruptured for a long time. This is a huge problem.
The only way to help make those births safer is to understand what motivates folks to do it. I am still researching this. But I do know that hurling insults, although tempting at times, is not overly productive.
Pinky, I think the reasons are multiple. You know what goes on in hospitals and I know while this is probably news to many of Shauna's readers, you know how unnecessary much of it is. Many birthing women find out the hard way, or hear about it from others who did. We have, to a large part, a case of broken trust. Mothers who realize that standard obstetrics misinforms and manipulates and takes advantage of their trust, once their faith in mainstream maternity practices is shattered, they may not even believe medical professionals when they are warning of real risks, like those of prolonged ROM. OR, they are aware of risks but they are also acutely aware of the lack of meaningful choices hospitals offer (no VBAC, no support or appreciation for physiological birth, no vaginal breech at all, little wonder since the breech extractions older docs might know are so risky, etc.) and they are weighing all risks and making choices you plainly don't agree with, but those choices are nonetheless fully informed, though made in the context of a very broken maternity system.
Ladies, may a little bit of nudity and a nice big bloody placenta be your biggest troubles when you're giving birth. I guarantee you will be on cloud nine.
Wow! All this drama over birthing is incredible. Some people can get so worked up, it's hilarious. Shauna, I don't know you, but I love you and think you're awesome! I agree with everything you've said 100%.
Shauna, let me give you some EXACT quotes from people at my work:
"WHAT? I don't care if people want to do this, but don't post private pictures on the INTERNET! That is gross!"
"The funny thing is, people in the 1800's didn't even do this, it's just something psyhco, people do now."
"ugh! What the? ugh! oh my! ugh!" (followed by gag reflexes)
"i feel bad for that little baby when she gets older and has to see these pictures...."
just a few reactions.....
wow. i got to work today and there were 55 comments! thats crazy.
To clear the air on something i said in regards to a blessing one woman wrote about on her public blog...
Im not about to diss the credibility of blessings people recieve, but i do however NOT believe that you will recieve a blessing of years of medical training, just like i dont think someone will recieve revealation on how to build an airplane out of scraps of food. I think the Lord wants us to help ourselves and we are blessed with people who can help us, so that we dont have to rely on our lack of knowledge and blessings. Yes i think sure, if you are in the dessert wilderness pushing a handcart and youre 9 months pregnant and there is no way for you to get to a hospital, than sure, maybe then guidance and peace would come. I am sorry, you can call that lack of faith if you want to, but i dont think im lacking faith.
And if it is so sacred to you, dont publicize it in a paragraph above a picture of your naked chest, and a sentance about your sterilized meat scissors, i mean COME ON.
i posted this on Rixa's page...i thought i'd post it on yours too Shauna.....
So i was just bored and blog hopping when i came across all this.....i don't know rixa, i don't know shauna....i don't actually know any of these people, but i thought i'd give an opinion from an outsider (outsider meaning i'm not bias) point of view. I saw that Shauna wrote this in a comment on her blog:
"And if it is so sacred to you, dont publicize it in a paragraph above a picture of your naked chest, and a sentance about your sterilized meat scissors, i mean COME ON."
i agree %100. All the the home birthing mothers are talking about how sacred it is to them....then why are there pictures posted on the internet of this sacred experience? And then there was also a comment left by trudith that says:
"I was raised to know that Heavenly Father has blessed me with the body that I have, but to also take care of it and to treat it as I would a temple. There is a reason why we don't publically post everything about the temple on the internet. And, just like a temple, our bodies are also sacred. I was also raised to know that nudity and/or sex are not a bad thing at all, when used correctly.... It bothers me that the church is constantly being brought into this blog spat...The original post was simply in regards to homebirth and naked images on the public internet. I mean, it simple when you stop and think about it...You don't see naked people on the pages of the Ensign do you?!?"
i also agree with her %100. The Temple is a sacred place and we aren't posting the stuff that goes on in it all over the internet because, well, it's SACRED.
Bottom line-- if it's so sacred to you, don't post it on the internet where everyone can see.
ps. i have never EVER seen a placenta print and i have never even heard of ANYONE saving them to make a print. I'm not dogging on anyone who has done this....or wants to, but lets just say i'm going to stick to the regular hand and foot prints for my baby.
Shauna's blog is funny. All of her posts are funny. If there are pictures posted for all the world to see of this so called "sacred" experiance, then i guess it isn't so sacred. It's actually sad that child birth IS a sacred and special thing and that this other blog makes it not so sacred when there are pictures of it posted. If you're going to take pictures, don't show them to the whole world.
The Prophet has said numerous times not to get involved with porography....last time i checked, nude pictures are pornography. So does this mean i should go to my Bishop because i looked at these pictures?
-Molly
Shauna,
One of the reasons that people are getting very frustrated and defensive is because you're not abiding by basic rules of courtesy. The comments you left on Rixa's blog were mean spirited and sarcastic.
If you took the time to look at the one post, I'm assuming that you looked around at least somewhat at other entries. I'm not sure how you could miss the the sheer amount of research that Rixa put into making this decision. On her side bar is a link to her "library" which is filled with midwifery texts. Unassisted birth is not for everyone--or every pregnancy, but can't you allow that she made a decision with current research (which, btw, does support birth at home as being appropriate for low risk women--see how in a blog post of Rixa's, the Royal College of Midwives in Britain is calling for an initiative to INCREASE homebirths.) that was best for her family? As for her art--if you didn't know it was made out of a placenta, you'd probably just think it was an abstract view of a rose, which is a lovely symbol for a new baby. It's not a choice you would make, but let's try to be more civil.
Also, nudity does not equal pornography. Pornography is "obscene writings, drawings or photographs". Obscenity is "
1. offensive to morality or decency; indecent; depraved: obscene language.
2. causing uncontrolled sexual desire.
3. abominable; disgusting; repulsive.
Now, these pictures are certainly graphic, but they are of a birth, and as a labor and delivery nurse in a hospital, such is the nature of birth. They are certainly not meant to excite people sexually, which IS the nature of pornography. Whether you think they are disgusting, is of course your prerogative, but many would disagree--and certainly, a birth of a child is not abominable.
Rixa asked you politely to remove her photo. I'm not sure why you haven't yet.
Yeah, I am totally going to birth my young'ns in a pool in my living room with full documentation and absolutely zero medical assistance. I think it is the smart and right thing to do.
Thank you cileag for justifying pornography.
What about all the babies that are born on the way to the hospital or on the side of the road? Do you think that is gross because they weren't born in the hospital? Giving birth is a natural thing and shouldn't been seen as a gross out fact of life just because it was done at home.
alright dumb dumbs, i dont think giving birth is gross. I just think bloody pictures of other women burn my eyes.
LEAVE IT OFF YOUR BLOGS FOLKS
Let's point out that you said "on the way to the hospital," they were planning on having it in the hospital, not on the side of the road. And are there pictures posted of this "side of the road" delivery? i haven't seen any.....
Spoken from true ignorance. You have not done the research on this topic before you slander anothers' life altering decision. I'll let you be just another sad statistic when you decide to have your baby in the hospital.
i dont even know what to say anymore. i will never agree with you that its safe to do it all on your own just from "researching websites" and "other homebirthers."
Regardless of what your opinions are, i never once called any of you ignorant (that i can remember) and i dont appreciate your comments reapetedly. i understand that you dont like my opinions, or maybe just dont like me. Which is fine. But just go away. I will never feel like i need to be empowered by putting my child at risk with a home delivery sans midwife.
Now please go away cause i think youre all nuts.
and mommy lynda, i dont want your nursing pictures on my blog, thanks.
Another sad statistic? Do you not understand that it has been said that it's not the at home birthing that is disturbing....it's the PICTURES. Having a child in a hospital is not "sad," just sanitary.
To respond directly to your original post,
1) If you don't condone nude pictures of birth, you shouldn't post a direct link and say look if you want to. ESPECIALLY if your convictions liken it to pornography. You can find plenty of pictures of nude hospital births on blogs as well if you search for them.
2) The blessing was OBVIOUSLY not for medical knowledge, it was for encouragement, just like women who get blessings or prayers in the hospitals. Although Rixa does have a PhD education, since you did mention it.
3)Yes, you can do whatever you want in your own home. But what about when you're in a hospital and you are giving the same drugs that you are getting to that tiny baby via your placenta? I work as a NICU nurse and I can't tell you how many babies need to be resuscitated after a narcotic birth.
4) The insides of your uterus are sanitary, in fact they are sterile. As far as normal vaginal bacteria, then if it's your husband in the pool, chances are he's already experienced it ;).
If you are in a hospital, you are going to be laying in the exact same fluids, with the exception of having five different people shove their hands up your sacred parts.
5) She chose to make a piece of art from the organ that nourished her daughter for 9 months, and because her experience was so amazing. I don't think a little bit of dried blood is gross though.
6) The hospital treats the placenta as biohazard because it contains blood and many people will be handling it down in the lab. Not because it's GROSS.
In response to some of your comments, do you know why Dr.'s malpractice insurance is so high? Because they make mistakes, and babies die sometimes. Sometimes things go horribly wrong from an epidural, or forceps, or a c-section, pitocin or inductions (a major cause of fetal distress).
Preterm births are increasing because Dr.'s induce or perform elective c-sections earlier and earlier. I've seen all of the above.
Do I think homebirths are safe? Absolutely. The countries with the LOWEST mortality rates in the world are the ones with socialized medicine that do mostly midwife births.
"...newborn mortality is 2.5 times higher in the United States than in Finland, Iceland or Norway...,"
Read it on CNN!
http://www.cnn.com/2006/
HEALTH/parenting/05/08/
mothers.index/index.html
dont you have homeschooling to get to? or i dont know, public breastfeeding that needs to be done?
i guess turn my child over to CPS when i give birth to them in a hospital, HOPEFULLY C-SECTION and hopped up on drugs!
i mean just STOP commenting on Shauna's blog already. Write about it and discuss it between yourselves if you want to, but enough with the COMMENTS. Get a life. NOW I know you are all going to say "well maybe Shauna should get a life and stop worrying about what women are doing." Well last time i checked she never commented on that girls page....she just wrote about it. So, if you have so much to say about it....go write about it.....SOMEWHERE ELSE!
Seriously.
so many crazy home birthers. leave shavs alone. you are wasting your time, because her opinion is not going to change. i had a great birth experience having to be induced and given drugs and would repeat it EXACTLY the same. why would you have a root canal without novacaine?
Um, I literally just peed my pants when I read Shauna's last post...Home schooling to get to?!? I mean, seriously...HILARIOUS! On a positive note, I would just like to throw a couple of shout outs to the homebirthers...
1. Thanks for the entertainment...This is better than a good comedy.
2. Thanks for bringing my co workers and I closer...we check this ridiculous blog EVERYDAY at work! HA!
3. Thanks for allowing me to see that even though we're all brothers and sisters...we still have some weirdy's out there...
4. Thank you HOMEBIRTHERS for making me see how blessed I am to have had awesome parents who didn't try there hardest to be different and risk my life. My mom had 5 of us "naturally"....in a hospital, drugless :)
5. And last but not least....thanks for the graphic visual of your naked body, bloody water, and placenta painting that will be forever embedded in my mind....and all the other millions of people that are laughing at you!!!
Love, Trudi
Hi,
I am a friend of Shauna’s and I find her hilarious. That said, I’m sure you want to stop reading what I have to say already. In the hopes of persuading you to keep reading I can honestly say this: I think home births are great. I think it is important for women to understand that they do have options when it comes to giving birth. I believe in breastfeeding IN PUBLIC while trying to respect others around me. At Jane’s birth, I thought the placenta was really cool and I was proud that it was “big and healthy.” And I was not at all grossed out by the nude photos of the homebirth. Do I have your attention? I hope so, because I would like it if you would listen to my humble opinion. Although I personally was not grossed out or bothered by seeing birth pictures, I personally feel that our bodies are more sacred than plastering pictures of them on the internet, even if they are not sexual in nature. But, that is a completely personal choice, so it’s fine that that lady did. But you shouldn’t be surprised that others are going to find it odd and yes, even talk about it in their funny blogs.
In regards to home births, I support you 100% so long as there is a trained and educated midwife in attendance. You can ask her to be as hands off as you would like her to be, but he/she should be there. You may say that it is a woman’s personal choice to do a UC birth. Others say that it is a woman’s personal choice to have an abortion. I personally wish that both were illegal and I oppose both for many of the same reasons. Because I believe in the rights of the fetus child I completely disagree with the woman being able to decide to terminate her pregnancy. Similarly, because I feel the fetus child has rights of it’s own I don’t believe that a mother should choose to do a UC birth for her own personal gain: empowerment, a beautiful experience, or just to be the coolest, chicest, hippiest lady in your ward, at the expense of her child’s safety. Please, stop sharing statistics about home births. Those statistics include midwifes. After researching ACTUAL studies and statistics I think it is fair to say that hospital births are anywhere from as safe to 2x safer than midwife attended home births. (Keep in mind that almost all high risk cases that have a greater likelihood of death upon delivery are going to be born in hospitals so that is already a statistical disadvantage). That said, if anyone has actual concrete statistical evidence about true UC birth I would love to hear it. I don’t understand the appeal (other than the ones I already listed such as being the hippiest of all your hippie friends) of having a UC birth vs. a mid-wife birth in the home. I CAN however understand why you would choose to have a midwife birth vs. a hospital birth and I completely respect that decision. I do feel that respect is lacking from MANY, MANY of the comments that are pro-home birth. There is a sickening, over-all and in general feeling coming from MANY of your comments that suggest that women who choose to give birth in a hospital are sad cases that will never truly understand the beauty of birth. Let me try to explain to you why many women, even after getting informed on the subject would choose to have a hospital birth over a UC birth: At the end of the day I could live with having received unnecessary pitocin, pushing while laying on my back, and I could even live with the fact that my doctor decided to give me a C-Section so that he could get to his golf game on time but I could NEVER, EVER live with myself if I had to hold my newborn baby in my arms as it died while waiting for EMT’s to arrive. Does that logic somehow make me someone that will never understand the beautiful rite of passage of becoming a mother? I don’t think so.
As I already mentioned I wish that UC births were illegal. I’m sure that seems harsh to many, so luckily for you, it is your choice to do so. I also wish that those who had a UC birth would not share it with others because I think it can influence people negatively. Mothers may see your stories and think, “it worked for her, it will work for me.” That is obviously a logical fallacy and a dangerous one at that. The more women you influence to have UC births the more likely it is that one will result in a tragic ending that could’ve been prevented with a mid-wife in attendance.
Another objection I have to your overall condescending attitudes that come through in comment after comment is that there are many women who will legitimately need medical intervention at the time of their child’s birth. Having been influenced by the attitude that is present in many of your comments that woman is bound to feel that her birth was a waste, was a disappointment, and that in some way it didn’t really count. That would be a tragic shame, yet that is what many of your comments allude to. What I learned in my experience of giving birth was that the mother should focus less on herself and trying to achieve the most fulfilling and spiritual birth experience for herself, and devote all of her focus to who’s birth it truly is, the child’s. So many of you say “my birth” when really it was your child’s birth. It’s just interesting.
So, if there are any women out there looking at their options remember that if you are low-risk and comfortable a mid-wife home birth may be a great option, but the hospital is another great option if you would feel more comfortable with that. And you should not feel less of a mother if you and your child end up needing medical intervention for your safety, or even if you decide to have an epidural. Birth is a beautiful, wonderful, life-changing experience and home-birthers don’t have a monopoly on that!
Did you know that 95% of babies in the US are born in hospitals.....and that 'technology and professionals' has meant that the US has one of the HIGHEST maternal and neo-natal DEATH rates in the developed world. Other modern countries---like the UK---strongly support home and water births AND have MUCH lower maternal and neonatal death rates.
Yes, doctors DO kill babies. Would you like some links?
Women don't need 'professionals' to birth their babies. They need the personal belief that the collective conscious of millenium of women is enough.
Like I said, tracykm, I am only interested in statistics comparing UC birth to hospital births. "They need the personal belief that the collective conscious of millenium of women is enough." Interesting that in my family history my grandmothers had so many babies die at birth yet I don't have a single sister or friend that that has happened to. I think it's safe to say that even though women have been giving birth since Eve it has gotten safer since then too.
people can have their babies any way they want. more power to 'em. leave it alone.
What a man and woman do in their own home is sacred and personal between THEM. I fell bad for this child having to grow up knowing that a large majority of people have seen their mother naked. Birthing pictures should be left to educational texts and personal view only. I strongly agree with what people wrote about Temples and our bodies. We do not share what goes on in temples with the general public and we should likewise not share our bodies with the public. Giving birth or not, her private parts are for her and her husband only, the bottom line is that she has nude pictures on the internet. I'm glad I am not in her ward, that would be awkward seeing her at church.
as an avid reader of shauna's blog, and a personal friend of hers, i can't BELIEVE i haven't left a comment on this blog entry yet.
i think the most important issue with her post is being lost. people are too defensive, and their anger is misdirected. the people who seem to be upset with shauna are ready to fire at her for being opposed to homebirth. although she certainly made that point, i think that the main concern here was that the woman posted nude pictures of herself on a public blog. being open with your body? loving and respecting the human anatomy? GET REAL, people! as long as there is pornography on the internet, there will be no real respect for a woman's anatomy by the general public. childbirth it is a sacred, PRIVATE experience, and not one that should be plastered on the internet for friends, family, and all of the world to stumble upon.
i actually have seen this woman's birthing blog before, and all i could keep thinking was "what would someone in the first presidency say?". do i want my dad (or bishop or uncle or brother or male family friend) to check out my online blog to see how i'm doing, and be able to see me completely nude? absolutely not. because i KNOW that, even if i am comfortable with my body, it is VERY inappropriate for a man or woman who is not in my family to see it. completely and totally inappropriate.
and don't get me started on sharing inspiration. a blessing is so so SO sacred and personal. i cannot believe it was discussed. i can't even begin to say how disappointed i am. no words.
also, i checked out the website where the "placenta art" was posted, and cloth diapers were suggested. a woman commented, encouraging mothers to literally DUMPSTER DIVE for USED clothing to make diapers with. my sister just had a baby (in a hospital with a doctor by the way- the horror! what an AWFUL PERSON, to take advantage of someone else's education and life devotion to child-birthing!), and if she tried to use SOMEONE ELSE'S TRASH to diaper her child, i would call child protective services. you don't KNOW why those clothes were thrown away, or what they were touching in the dumpster! too risky for me, thanks. sorry i wrote so much, it's just my opinion and, like shauna, i am entitled to one of my very own.
just saw the post and had to comment. i don't care what anyone says giving birth to a baby is not about the mother it is about the baby getting the chance to have a body and i think it is totally selfish when women think they can just do it at their home with a backup plan to go to the hospital...SELFISH! and you guys can rip on me all you want but I know I'm right. would be dead right now if my mom had some crazy plan to have me at home in a pool of blood. The cord was wrapped around my neck.
please tell me who she 'borrowed' the pool from....sick! buy your own pool. different strokes for different folks. dear anonymous, if i had had any of my three kids at home, they would all be dead, and so would i.
If you think the pictures are gross stopping freak'n looking at them!!!!! She didn't invite you into her world to judge what her and her husband are doing so LEAVE her along!!
Now I can cross "Being the 83rd comment on a blog post" off my list.
Shalom.
Dear Anonymous
She did invite us by not making it a private invite only blog. I was also thinking that the birth process is so beautiful that we should post pictures, that we should put up the pictures of the conception or even better yet video.
Nick M
P.S. Don't get panties in a wad about that comment it was sarcasm.
Holy 85 comments! Sherri told me to look at this blog, and I was slightly horrified. The placenta print. The placenta print. I almost just threw up. That's just straight up NASTY!
Whoever Nick M is...is pretty much hilarious! I mean, a video of the conception?!?!? Not only are you fricken hilarious, but you're brilliant too :) I also agree with the fact that we (along with the rest of the world) were invited to view this homebirthing blog the minute you put it on the world wide web.... Also, while I was sharing your blog with about 25 of my peeps a question arose... Are the homebirthers not down with circumsizing the baby either???
I have a couple questions:
1. Would you be comfortable with your father or father in-law to see those naked pictures of your home birth?
2. For these LDS women, would you be comfortable with the Prophet seeing those pictures? Do you think he would think that was appropriate to post on the internet?
Well you call yourself christian, but the way you treat others is not christian. Homebirth is safe perhaps safer. The US has the 2nd worst maternal and infant mortality rates, and the countries with the best maternal and infant mortality have more homebirths and midwifes. The US also has one of the highest c-section rate on record 30%, and according to the World Health Organization any c-section rate above 5-10% unnecessarliy harms the mother and child. Women were meant to birth in prvacy and being in a hospital with all these medical interventions ARE THE THINGS THAT CAUSE COMPLICATIONS. Around 5% of women should be birthing in a hospital. Birth is safe, and mother nature is not dumb. Besides if have a good midwife or have done your research well and realize you need to transport to a hospital then you call the hospital and say I'am coming, and then you would be treated faster than if you were already in the hospital. So don't be so critical of homebirthers, because at least they are making an educated informed choice, instead of a choice thats based on fear, and ignorance. Poverty, intervention, and fear are the major killers in birth. It was never becuase of hospitals and doctors that made birth safe it was becuase of cleaner and healthier living conditions. I suggest you read "Pushed: The Painful Truth of Childbirth and Modern Maternity Care" By Jennifer Block, and that will lead you to more books that are good eveidence for the safety of homebirth. or check out my blog homebirthissafe.blogspot.com.
I hope that someday you will speak and write with grace, class and kindness. Your blog may entertain less, but it will be more in line with who you should really want to be. I am unspeakably disappointed in all of the LDS posters, who have written without tact or kindness. You have all promised to bear each others burdens, not tear each other down. You should be above sarcastic comments and cheap shots. And those of you who aren't LDS should be above that too. Shauna, I hope that someday you will be better than this. I hope someday you have as good a husband as this woman you ripped on. (I know them both, personally) I hope that man, like this woman’s husband, isn't afraid or grossed out by any part of you, and completely supports and believes in you. I hope you have a birth as amazing and healthy for you and your baby as this woman did (I was the friend at the birth). And I hope you love, respect, and trust yourself, enough that you are capable of extending this courtesy to all your sisters. I'm sorry you made this post, you should be too. As a covenant daughter of God, this is beneath you.
I can't wait for your next controversial blog Shauna. This has been VERY entertaining.
Thank you circle of people for making the same exact point 50 times. It has been very entertaining to read. I am pretty sure that Shauna and anyone else who reads this blog still has the same exact point as they did coming in. But you have SOLIDIFIED my decision completely just based on the fact that I wouldn't want to be grouped as a "home-birther"... so thank you.
-Kristine
Dearest Sea_Gal, put down the Lord's gavel. You don't know what Shauna should and shouldn't do as a "covenant daughter of God." That's up to Shauna. I have known Shauna for about seven years now. She is unbelievably kind and caring. She is a very good person and I like being around her. It's not a bad thing to publicly share opinions. If somebody's comfortable sharing naked pictures of herself with everyone, she's probably also comfortable with people talking about her and the reason they were able to see her naked. If she's not, she's a little naive vis-a-vis the modern world, and this is good for her to now learn about the rest of us as we've learned about her--naked and raw. I love sarcasm and I think God likes it too.
For all the people who keep stating things like the US is the second worst country in the world for maternal and infant mortality rate: get it right. We're the second worst among industrial nations, but still among the best in the world. We are right behind Denmark (huge home birth country), Netherlands, and the UK. They have 4 fatalities per 1000, we have 5. The best is Japan (not big on home births), at just a little under 2 fatalities per 1000 births. These are basic statistics that don't recognize the fact that the US is far behind those countries in universal health care coverage. We have a lot of undocumented foreigners in our country as well many other poor people who don't receive proper medical care. This doesn't mean they are SOL if they go into labor and head to a hospital. What it does mean though, is that they haven't receive proper medical care, monitoring, advice, and information regarding a healthy pregnancy. They are much more likely to have their babies premature and underweight. And it is actually our large number of premature and underweight babies that cause us to have our higher fatality rate with regards to other industrialized nations.
I'm also tired of people saying women wear meant to birth in privacy, at home, etc. Give me a break. You know what our wisdom teeth were meant for? To fill the gap left by our previously rotten and lost teeth. Of course nowadays, we have much better dental care and instead of losing our teeth, they are saved and we have a dentist pull out the wisdom teeth before they impact the healthy ones still in our mouth. It's funny how we make advances in life and people insist we must step backwards. There is a reason people died in childbirth so much more often only a hundred years ago. It is because we didn't have a good enough medical establishment to save the mother and child when things went awry. I am very grateful for doctors and modern medicine. And I'm grateful for wonderful Shauna. Perhaps she will, through her excellent posts, have saved somebody from the mistake of letting their new baby die at home like my daughter would have should we have gone that route. Shauna is friendly and fun and kind and loving. I like Shauna.
Sea_Gal-It's is truly dissapointing to see that you fall so typically into the stereotypical "mormon" woman category. You know the one I'm talking about...afraid to discuss controversy, quick to judge, and acting as if your choice of birthing is the only way to go. Well, I'm here to tell you that if I had ran into you or some other "perfect" member of our church, I would have never ever ever sat down and listened to what you had to say. Which in turn, would have meant that I wouldn't have joined the church years ago. It's women like you that give the lds people a bad name. It's your kind that makes people think we are closed minded freaks who are still "living in the 1800's" and are afraid of technology. Maybe you should quit blogging, because you know the internet is a new technology. Your post and all of your homebirthers posts scream hypocricy!!! You're turning the beautiful birth of one of Heavenly Father's children into a public pornagraphic scene. What would you do if all the men in your ward saw the pictures of your naked body online? I suppose you would be ok with that right?!? I wonder what the breathren would think of that?!? You'll learn that when you start justifying thinkgs, you will end up justifying everything! Also, I commend Shauna and everyone else for not being afraid to discuss this issue and for standing firm on their opinions! I feel very blessed to be surrounded by you in the midst of such close minded, typical and hypocritical members!
wow-- just noticed the amount of comments here this a.m.! Those pictures are absolutely horrendous. What would possess someone to post pictures of a sacred, private thing for the whole world to see (regardless of whether she intended it to be that way)??!! I cannot believe the absence of shame that would make it okay to take nude pictures of them self in a tub of bloody birthing juice. i am scarred for life for seeing those.
you guys seriously need to relax.
fact: posting pictures of yourself naked on the internet is NEVER appropriate.
fact: seeing a person sitting in a pool of someone else's guts is going to gross some people out
fact: you guys aren't going to change Shauna's mind.. so what if she was disrespectful, she writes this blog for her friends and I think most of them thought it was pretty funny.
Yeah how would you like like if it you gave birth in a hospital with abunch of people shoving their hands up your Vagina you would be really embarassed. Most women are not comfortable with that, that is why their labors slow down and end up having a c-section. Birth is a Sexual even and requires the same need for privacy. If you don't believe me read "Estastic Birth" By Sarah J. Buckley M.D on my blog. Why should we have to birth our children with a doctor between our legs when we created them with just our husbands and us. Women are designed to birth children in privacy and 8 million years of evolution can't be wrong. Womenhood is not a disease. Choosing to have a homebirth is not a selfish act becuase at home all those dangerous medical interventions that cause complications are not there, so choosing a homebirth wheather it's unassisted or assisted is realizing that birth works best when it is left alone and away from all those dangerous medical interventions, and using a hospital only when it is truly needed. Children born at home are much healthier physically and mentally becuase they where away from all those interventions that can mess up their health as well as the mothers. Violent Traumatic Births Lead to Violent unhealthy lifestyles. With our rising rates of drugs alchol, murders,suicide, and abuse maybe we should go back and look at the way we bring our children into the world. At homebirths babies are brought into the world in a loving warm, comfortable manner with the two people that created the baby being the first and only people to touch the baby. Complications are caused by medical intervention. Poor health, hygiene, lifestyles, and infection where the major killers in birth, so birthing in a hospital is like living in the 1800's despite the evidence that shows that hospitals have never improved mortality rates, and it was cleaner and healthier lifetsyles that made birth safe.
Check out my blog www.homebirthissafe.blogspot.com
Are you kidding me?
"Children born at home are much healthier physically and mentally becuase they were away from all those interventions that can mess up their health as well as the mothers."
Where is the evidence that supports this? Why would you ever think or say this? Are you retarded? oh wait, nevermind, i guess im the one that is retarded since i was born in a hposital via a VIOLENT procedure which has obviously made me a slower learner, unhealthy adult, and an overall angry person.
Fine, homebirth your children, its your thing, fine. But you are not better, or smarter (thats for sure), than those willing and excited to have assistance of a medical professional at their side.
You wonder why people think this is crazy, and that maybe youre all a little crazy? Why do folks think that you all think you are better than everyone who doesnt think like you? Its because you do. You are nuts.
Cassandra, you need to chill out! Do you think all the apostles and their wives homebirthed their children. Trust me, they too take advantage of todays technology. If hospital birthing was the wrong way to go, I think we would have been informed by the prophet not to take that route....Kepp homebirthing, just shut up about it and stop being so public with it. Nobody wants to see your vagina, boobs, or anything else on the internet. You don't post video's of the conception so why post them of the birth! People say that smoking marajuna helps deal with pain...but do you smoke it? NO! You are way too eccentric and honestly just embarrassing! Please try to be in the world, but not of it.
Wow, reading all of these comments just robbed an hour from my life!
First of all, I didn't find the pictures pornographic as many have said. I do however, think it is inappropriate to both post pictures of and talk about things that are meant to be sacred I do agree with many she could have kept it sacred if the blog was private.
I really appreciated comments on both sides of the issue that were written eloquently and with proper information. I especially liked Matt Ella & Jane's comments and agreed completely.
I have 2 kids that were both delivered via c-section. I am a cardiology patient and had many complications. My first labor experience was terrible and a c-section was completely necessary. I did not qualify for a VBAC {vaginal birth after cesarean} with my second child. I believe that all of this was right and necessary FOR ME. I would never be so assuming as to advocate my beliefs on birthing on homebirthers or anyone else. I think this is respectful, but I don't feel like we hospital patrons are extended the same courtesy.
I have found homebirth advocates {through the course of my life, not just this whole current blog flare-up} to be so proud of themselves and into it, and the way you push it on everyone comes off as very condescending. Many of you look down your noses at people's choices to take drugs or have c-sections, as if I am less of a woman for not doing it naturally!
Many put off an air of pride about their choices and that is a major contributor to the way you make people feel about you. You are stereotyped because of a perceived lack of balance in your lives.
That is 110% fine with me to have a home birth, in fact I think it's great! {With a midwife present, I think it is reckless and irresponsible without} Just don't discount my experience because I didn't choose to or wasn't able to have it that way! Your arrogant attitudes are why people get defensive and feel the need to in turn judge your choices just as harshly.
And one more thing, let's not forget about all of the children who are adopted and some one else has done the birth part. The birth is not the end; it is a beautiful beginning of the life you will share with your child. And in the end it is just the means of getting them here, however you choose to do it!
And one more thing, sorry. Just because we didn't have our babies "naturally" or won't choose to doesn't mean:
1. We are afraid of our bodies. I mean come on!
2. We missed our rite of passage as women
This is what I am talking about above when I refrence the condescending attitudes!
Shauna,
I am your 1st and 100th comment. This whole argument is a crack up. You managed to cover several controversial issues in one easy blog: pornography, birth, sex, statistics, and religion. Tell me, how do you do it? Please let me know which issue you're tackling next so I can jump on the comment wagon and keep up on the ridiculous comments and insults.
I as a woman am glad there are women that post pictures of their birthing experiences. I do not find them to be upsetting, but educational, beautiful and real. If you don't want to see such pictures don't research the subject, as you will probably come across them. If you don't like the art made from a placenta, don't publish it yourself and then declare how awful it is. Be mature, respect others and don't hurl insults. Women need to support each other, not make things harder and be mean about very personal choices.
Questions:
1. If an expectant mom is planning a homebirth and is irresponsible to a baby who cannot make a decision, then it follows that you are anti-abortion. Are you anti-abortion? Abortion is the ultimate in harming a baby who cannot choose - killing the unborn.
2. Where do you stand on birth control? There are forms of birth control that kill a newly developing child.
3. Where do you stand on immunizations of a newborn baby? Newborns cannot make decisions about the possible side effects and the CDC just came out admitting that autism is CAUSED by certain chemicals in some immunizations.
4. What about baby boys being circumcised? Shouldn't they be asked first if they want the tip of their penis sliced off so they can look like daddy? Is an intact male "gross?" Some women call circumcision mutilation.
Parenting is tough. At some point, parents have to make the best informed decision about their baby.
dear lynn,
i think 102 comments is enough and im trying to save my really really controversial anti-abortion blog for later. thanks though! ha.
Hi, Just wanted to apoligize for my comment on Rixa's blog. I need to be more respectful :-)
There is a tremendous amount of ignorance being shown here.... and it's not coming from the homebirthers who have taken the time to educate themselves about birth and their own bodies.
Most hospital birthers never bother to educate themselves about the birth process. They just turn themselves and their children over to a paid stranger. That my friend, is true irresponsibility.
Dear Anonymous,
First: and foremost you're a wuss for not using your name (you could have used just your first name and still nobody would no who you are).
Second: yeah i think home births are kinda weird, but if you want to do it that way, cool.
Third: Anyone who climbs into a pool of mucky, disgusting, bloody, amniotic filled liquid, is MUCH more irresponsible than someone who seeks help from a doctor to have a baby.
Love,
Daniel James Visser
801-706-4002
Call Me!! xoxoxo
I had a scheduled c-section and check me out, I'm kick ass.
True, the placenta print does stretch the bounds of what most of us consider 'normal'...but anyone who is considering ever having a kid should definitely do a little more reading into hospital practices before dismissing a homebirth as the unsafe option...
In this whole thing about your reponse to Rixa's blog, the thing that saddens me most is how you ignorantly judge and degrade the blessing that she was given during her birth. I've learned that you are LDS too. Do you not have more respect for your religion, your God and the priesthood than to scoff at sacred things? You are either denying that God gives people personal revelation that meets their needs and circumstances, or that her husband gave her a blessing, using the priesthood of God, that was not inspired or directed by the Spirit. Both of which show either your lack of understanding or your lack of faith in the gospel of Jesus Christ. You may think that Rixa's practices are unorthodox and by all means express your opinion, but to belittle others' spiritual experiences put your own ability to experience the Spirit in jeopardy.
Why dont you all JUST SHUT THE F**K UP!!!!
Oh my goodness. I just came across this and I do not even know what to say. I cannot imagine a mindset in which it is deemed a good plan to set out a piece of paper with the express intention of (gagging) imprinting a placenta. What does one do with such a thing? It's horrifying to me! I feel like this is straight out of a sci-fi movie or something. And I do not understand women who give birth at home, (much less in a kiddie pool). Last time I checked it's 2008...
Anyway, very interesting post. I feel like I need to shower now, after seeing this woman and her husband bathing in afterbirth.
For those who felt the comment about homebirth being dangerous was true, try doing some research. i.e., "Born in the USA" by Marsden Wagner, M.D. Also, when you specify a person and use harsh words, I would definitely call it an attack. An opinion is generalized, such as "I am not fond of placenta prints." It becomes an attack when you say that the woman who did it is sick. Regarding the comment about trained professionals - midwives actually get MORE training in birth than doctors. Midwives get 4 or more years before being licensed, doctors get 2 weeks rotation. Midwives have to prove their skills to become licensed, doctors do not. Midwives make decisions based on facts, doctors make decisions mainly based on litigation risk. I should know, I'm a midwife, my hubby is a doctor. We are planning homebirths. I have attended homebirths for multiple MDs (who trusted my expertise above their own), and one of my hubby's professors (a doctor) chose homebirth. All were beautiful and safe. Try to be educated before you bash people.
you are very ignorant.
i really just read 113 comments... thank you for entertaining me. love you lots... but not enough to sit in a pool of your blood and amniotic fluid. xoxo
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